I used to always wear something real "hot" to go dancing. People didn't exactly fall in line to dance with me though, and I figured it was because I'm white and I haven't established myself as a Salsera here in [the city]. One night, a Friday, I was so tired from work that I didn't change for [a hot Salsa club]: I just wore black slacks and a simple, conservative white blouse. I never sat down. So many men asked me to dance! So I've experimented with this and got a lot more conservative about my dress- and now a lot more people ask me to dance. It's so strange because I see lots of Latinas dressed, say, in midriff-baring tops and hotpants, but I guess a white girl who's showing it off just looks like trash, even if she CAN dance. (Or maybe it's just me and the fact is I look BAD dressed in those kind of outfits)
Ok people, what do you think?... Please leave your comments below.
I'm looking for answers - especially from the male "beef" side...
Answer from Beef #1:
I went straight to my boyfriend/dance partner with this one for an opinion from a Latin, male, Salsero. He said it could be one of three things (that's his pic).
1. He said there is a fine line between what looks hot and what looks "slutty." Those were his exact words. He said that an outfit that flatters one girl may look horrible on another girl wearing the exact same outfit. He said that Latin guys don't want to dance with a girl who looks like a prostitute. They tend to favor "nice" girls.
2. He said it could have been a matter of approachability.. He said that whether or not a latin guy asks a girl to dance can depend on where the girl is sitting or standing. He said that he has noticed anglo girls tend to congregate up front, in the light, where everyone can see them (especially if they think they look "hot") This makes them less likely to be approached becasue others may see the guy get rejected. ....and then he divulged one the secrets of Latin male Salseros... If a girl is located in the direct line to the restrooms, her chances are much better. Latin male types have great big egos which really get hurt if they are turned down for a dance. (Most of them think they are hot dancers even if they are not) If the girl is conveniently located on the path to the restroom, he will saunter over, ask her to dance, and if she says no, then continue on to the facilities like he was planning to go there in the first place.
3. He said maybe she just looked "stuck up" in her finery and conservative clothing simply makes her seem more relaxed and approachable.
If she keeps going to the same places, she will get to know some of the regulars, and they will ask her to dance regardless of what she is wearing if they like her and if she can follow well. That's my opinion.
Yours is such a fun website to read!! I love these questions you pose that really make us think.
Answer from Beef #2:
The Salsa scene carries more of a mature crowd than others... Yes it is true that men don't mind a one night stand but most "mature" men can decipher a woman by the clothes that she wears.... To make a long story short, I'm thirty one and if I'm looking for a "REAL WOMAN" and I want to enjoy my night with someone who is at my same level then I will definitely go with the one that is dressed conservative. She is the one that is going to get my offer to the "Big Dance"....!!!! Don't change...
Answer from Beef #3:
Dear Ms. Bewildered.
This may be a classic case of intimidation. No guy likes to be turned down by a "Hot" looking lady. It is the epitome of rejection. In fact, the very act of rejection can cause a guy to lose face. We end up thinking that everyone else is thinking "Yeah, that guy thought he was hot... Well, she sure put him in his place." In many cases quite a few people would be thinking "What a mean person" about the lady but... we (guys) don't tend to think that way. The situation is heightened when we see others witness our blunder and snicker. By putting on more regular clothes you made yourself safer... and more approachable. Look out though! Once the guys get to know you and you decide to wear a more risque outfit you are open game. No, not just from the pick-up perspective. You think you're getting a lot of exercise now? With the new outfit you'll have gentlemen dancing with you out to your car when you leave... Well, almost. In my opinion, you have mll get at least the same number if not more dances. Good luck...
-Salsa for 2 cents...
Answer from Beef #4:
The woman's clothing style. This is highly based on personal taste. I enjoy looking at sexy women with a sense of true stlye, whether the style is sexy and provocative or demure and sophisticated. The key is: WELL DONE. I can't tell you in words what the difference is between a woman who looks sexy and provocative and alarming versus one who looks like a slut. But I can spot it.
The same goes for a woman who shows up in more formal attire. Some will look like stiff robots who are tied up in a knot. Others can pull it off beutifully, looking like, well, there just aren't words. To get an idea of what I mean look in a Victoria's Secret Catalog. There are some great examples of both formal and exhibitionist attire in there.
You have to feel really comfortable. When I dress, I make sure that there is not a doubt in my mind that I am one of the best looking, sexiest men alive. That is the attitude I take with me to the clubs. I know I look good, I don't have to convince myself. (my dancing is another story
I am MUCH more attracted to the women who dress sophisticated. They are rarer, and when they have that sense of style, they are VERY sexy and alluring. They command more respect by dressing classy. Men take them more seriously. In Salsa I find I ask the classy girls to dance more often then the mini-skirt clad girls. It has a lot to do with the kind of women I want to meet.
Answer from Beef #5:
This question about how the lady dresses and getting dances in a hard one. Especially since we don't have a picture or anything to go on . Not having seen the lady in question, I can only guess at what caused the change in situation regarding getting dances? I wonder what club she was in? Well, here goes some guesses that probably will suggest more questions than they
I'll rule out the possibility that she looks bad. If her looks turned men of they probably would turn then off even more when she dressed conservatively - or not (smile). Also, I've seen some pretty questionable bodies in the hot Salsa dresses getting plenty of dances. So I'll limit my guesses to other avenues. Perhaps all of these apply.
Possibility number 1:
If she is very beautiful, men are often intimidated by this and reluctant to approach such a woman for fear of rejection or their own lack of self confidence. Also, if she is tall and wearing heels versus perhaps not having them when she was "dressed down" being shorter may have presented her as more of a candidate as a partner? Also, if she is very pretty, only the single unattached men may dare to dance with her for fear of making their partner, lover, or girl friend jealous.
Possibility number 2:
Perhaps she over did it trying to look hot? Was the look she had that of a prostitute, this would turn men off? Speaking in the broadest of generalities, there are some cultural differences in how people dress and assumptions are drawn from them. Here again it might be easier to know if this applied by knowing what club she was in. If most of the people know each other, how they dress has little to do with what people think about them. If someone new comes in and they are unknown, quite a lot of what's thought about them is determined by how they are dressed.
Possibility number 3:
When dancing with someone for the first time (and if the approach is about dance, and not to form a relationship), many good dancers may not be willing to take a chance on someone who is going to attract a lot attention unless they are pretty sure she is a good dancer. If it turns out that they don't dance well together I'm sure the guy would rather it not be with a high-profile partner because everyone may be watching. It's easier to take a dance chance with someone who is less conspicuous.
Possibility number 4: (Perhaps the most likely explanation)
Perhaps she was coming on too strongly. The tone of her note suggests that she was trying real hard to look hot to attract attention, and "dress like the latinas". Perhaps she was sending out too aggressive a signal. I think Latino men may be kind of turned off by lady's who come on too strongly or are emanating that "vibe" and look them too directly in the eye.
The night she showed up in her work clothes I'm sure she had no attitude about how she looked. She may even have been feeling shy about it and not seeking attention. Boom! Obviously (I'm guessing), she must be attractive or she wouldn't have attracted any attention dressed conservatively. If she feels she'd have more fun dressing "hotter" she find a style that is so without being so blatant, and have fun.
Answer from Beef #6:
I don't think being white has much to do with anything. Boys will be boys in any ethnic group.
I will say this; I prefer women who dress with style which does not translate to displaying all of the goods or the outlines of every curve and crevice. Even if the girl has a slammin body(like Edie), does not provide her with the liberty to always dress in revealing little outfits and still look good. Two words, taste and and style!!!!
Having said that, all bets are off when it comes to Hispanic Dudes. Hispanics generally go for what I consider to be trashy looking women. I am talking about the Hispanics that generally frequent the Salsa clubs. I am not saying that they are bad people but there is a big difference between Spain Spanish (European) and Hispanics.
Personally, I like the European style of dress and the way that Spanish (Spain) women carry themselves. To me they are much more sexy in their long skirts and less revealing style of dress.
Anyway, if you're just interested in dancing all night I guess you should continue wearing those long paints and white shirts. But don't base your level of attractiveness from Latin Clubs because it's a bad place to gauge such things.
Remember the words of the late Versace
"There's no accounting for bad Taste"
Answer from "Edie's personal questions to the Beef at clubs":
I believe it’s a combination of factors, but after asking all sorts of men this question at clubs, it is certainly NOT because you are "white".
I’ve run across a similar situation. My former partner, for example, loves women (and me) in very, very short dresses. He loves a great set of legs (what man doesn’t?). In fact, when we go out, if he doesn’t like a particular dress I’m wearing, he’ll ask me if I haven’t got any other dress in my trunk... (the nerve...)
Anyway, there was one time in particular I had gotten off work late. He wanted to meet me at a club that night. I didn’t have time to change, so I just went in what I was wearing, which was basically a dark blue suit jacket, with a long, flowing skirt to my ankles, and a stretch shirt under the jacket. Very professional looking, but the long skirt gave a feminine flair.
Needless to say, I arrive at the club, and when he saw me, he almost fell off his chair. He had a HUGE smile on his face, and could barely keep his hands off me! He felt my dress, looked at me, and just kept staring, and staring, and telling me how beautiful I looked. I could not believe it. He was that way the whole night. He could not get over my dress!
Those "Latina women" in midriff-baring tops and hot pants, may be better known than you, and have been in the scene a lot longer. The men they’re dancing with are "old friends" they’ve known for years. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are "white".
When a man goes out with a lady, or asks her for a dance, he wants to be "proud" of the woman he is seen with. He wants to have class. He wants to feel debonaire, he wants to feel "decent". Men want to see our "conservative" side. They enjoy it on occasion! They feel more
comfortable around us - like they felt around their sisters or mothers. They want to feel uninhibited, relaxed, and like men of honor. Sometimes guys will give each other sh__t about dancing with "That Slut" or "Ms. Underwear". Guys talk. They want to avoid that kind of talk from their friends, so they end up avoiding you.
I have found that most men in the Salsa scene are very traditional - especially if they were born in a different country, and especially if they are in their thirties or older. It’s basic instinct that when a man asks a lady to dance he may feel he has to "perform" for her, and make sure she’s pleased with him. Instinctively, subconsciously, he feels he must be better than her, and not have to compete for attention. If you’re dressed to the hilt, in a very sexy outfit, wearing next to nothing, well, that not only intimidates certain men, but it also makes them wonder about you.
Another thing for you to realize is that there are a lot of "secret affairs" going on in the Salsa scene. People dating "undercover". This is safer, and does not make you both a "cast away" from dancing with everyone else. Some women don’t like their "boyfriends" dancing with women who look too sexy - and men will purposely avoid you to avoid the confrontation later on...
I know for a fact that certain men will REFUSE to dance with me if I’m wearing next to nothing - even if we’ve been dancing together for months! If I go to a club in a conservative outfit, they’ll ask me to dance every time - like clockwork.
There’s one very good dancer I know who has complained to me about women who show their belly buttons in midriff-baring tops at a Salsa club. He says that when they sweat, they slip through his hands like a damp fish when he tries to turn them (some moves require grabbing the girl’s waist). He feels he can’t dip them, or do much of anything while dancing. Men are particular about the women they choose to dance with - especially the good dancers with an ego. A woman not only has to be a decent dancer, but her outfit also has to be "just right" so it doesn’t look like he’s screwing up on his lead. These guys CONSTANTLY want attention. And some of them mistakenly think the only way they can get it is by doing "cool" moves.
If I were you, I would continue to experiment, one evening wearing something very conservative, and the next going balls-out sexy and in a "next to nothing outfit". Then ask your "guy friends" what they honestly think, and why they think that way. I have a feeling you’ll be quite surprised...
- Edie, The Salsa FREAK!!